This just in, the Bible Does Not Mention Homosexual Marriage
Posted by conservativesensei on December 9, 2008
Turning the Bible on its Head — Newsweek Goes for Gay Marriage
Dr. Albert Mohler wrote a terrific Blog today about the recent Newsweek magazine article concerning the Bible’s position on homosexuality. The “religious” editor at Newsweek magazine contends that the Bible doesn’t even address homosexual relationships and more specifically, homosexual marriage. I highly encourage you to read this article. Few theologians are as capable as Dr. Mohler to explain tough issues and destroy ridiculous – in this instance — arguments against what is becoming a constant attack on the moral standards that built this country and inspired the founding fathers. Please give it a read.
I have always believed that you need to read the source to truly form an opinion about it, so I am also providing the link to the Newsweek article as well.
The Burk Family said
Within the first few lines of the Newsweek article, I laughed a little. This woman has clearly very little knowledge concerning the Bible. First she makes mention of the fact that Abraham slept with his servant because his wife Sarah was infertile. Insinuating that God approved of this. Which when the entire story is told proves her theory wrong about God honoring traditions of different times. You see, God declared that he would give them a son. Sarah in her own understanding, limiting God thought, since I am incapable then this must mean it will come from another woman so she declared to Abraham to go lye with another. Now this was custom in their time. However, God’s law does not change with tradions and customs. Even though Ishmael was born with a purpose like every child. He was NOT the promised child. God could not bless such a union. Isaac, who was the promised child was the result of the martial union recognized by God. There were several contradictions in her story! For one reason, she’s grasping at straws that do NOT exsist. The Bible is very clear on the concept of a martial union. My approach is when stating your case to those who love to distort otherwise very clear Biblical scriptures, then take the common sense approach to “and the two shall become one” Marriage is all about taking two bodies and becoming one flesh. God created man and woman like two separate puzzle pieces that when united fit perfectly together. Two women or two men are physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually incapable of this perfected union.
God created Adam, then removed a rib and created woman. The only piece that will complete Adam is the portion that God removed which is woman. Man is everything woman is not, and visa versa. So that when combined they become perfectly whole, not just physically, but emotionally, and mentally. Sure if you hit them hard enough you can go around creation and force two pieces together but your end result will only be a distorted version of what the creator of the puzzle had originally intented. And the result will NOT have HIS stamp of approval on it.
Ben said
Truly unbelievable…and aggravating for me because a Meacham book is one of my favorites.
Albert Mohler’s blog was good, but it also reinforced something I have been screaming to my family…the religious are partly to blame! Mohler says of the Newsweek article:
“Furthermore, to accept this argument is to assume that the Christian church has misunderstood the Bible from its very birth — and that we are now dependent upon contemporary “progressive scholars” to tell us what Christians throughout the centuries have missed.”
What is sad is that many Christians can recite or are conversant of contemporary scholars than the actual text itself. Is it so surprising, then, that something so fundamental as marriage is being toyed with? Meacham’s statement about the article is something some of us have heard before; the idea that the elite in this country really have the answers that the Bible is hiding…God forbid you go the Bible for answers when so many contemporary scholars have already told you what the Bible “meant” to say. Apparently earning a PhD makes you smarter than God himself!
Miller’s statement that the Bible cannot be used as a guide for marriage sent me through the roof (not a surprise for some of you), and then she states that we can only use the Bible for its few universal truths…what is sad is that people actually believe arguments like hers. Another thing that Miller and many on the left like to mention is Jesus’ interaction with sinners of all types (prostitutes, murders, etc.), and how if he were here he would embrace the gay community. They always forget that Jesus left all of them…changed! The prostitute lived a regular life after meeting with Jesus, as did every other person he met that had issues. I agree with Miller that Jesus would embrace the gay community, but after he left them, they would no longer be gay.
The Bible is in fact very specific regarding homosexuality, as Mohler illustrates. Mohler doesn’t mention Sodom and Gammorah, another demonstration of God’s view on homosexuality. The far left are livid that the people of California voted for Proposition 8, and are using every tactic possible to force the majority to accept a severe minority.
Amy Lee said
I can't hang with all of you in a manner that would clearly say what I want, so I am that lady in the church, standing up on her feet waving her hands in the air up & down, saying, "Amen! Amen! Preach it sister! Preach it brother! You got it!"
There is this phenomenon that has swept across our nation & our churches off their feet. It is called "The Christian Worldview". It is were the world as a whole has meshed together so many ideas, interpretations, and beliefs altering the real word of God to bend & meet the needs of their own.
This is a prime example!
Schmitty said
You know Bryan…I was actually going to send you this article, but then I come here to The Conservative Sensei and "yes massa" you've already been there and done that…
One of my old friends from high school had posted a rebuttal to the Newsweek article by Joe Kovacs on his Facebook page…here's the like to the rebuttal…
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=83296
Amy Lee said
I have finally read all the article & the one that Schmitty submitted. Though the author of the blog Schmitty submitted was a bit immature with the name calling, it made a valid point:
He attempted to find various versions of the Bible to find the same thing stated many different ways. Same thing only different!
I find it odd that Gays try to fight religion, faith, & God by taking religion, faith, & God out of the argument. However, let me play along for a minute….
Even if God had never said that you are not to lay with a man like you lay with a woman, the pure concept that you find the same sex sexually attractive is perverse. (Go ahead, get mad!)
Eminem even says in one of his popular songs, "…if animals hump dead animals, why can't a man and another man elope?…"
WHY? Because even in the animal kingdom, with a million times less intelligence, there are animals that are crazy! They are often called "feral" referring to being untrainable & a "wild beast" & then put "to sleep." There are also those animals that are rapid & kill & put "to sleep." There are animals that just run into walls for no reason. Are you sure you want to be comparable with an animal instead of a human?
Also we will arrest a man (or woman) who finds a young child sexual alluring. If you rape, you are imprisoned as well. A man finding another man's rectum attractive to a point it makes their mouth water & their "pensis" hard is just as pervese. It is just as much as crime as molesting or raping. (Same applies to women, why do you think me get all hot for lesbians? Because they know it is wrong but it is so alluring. Why?
Because it is not natural! NOT NATURAL! God didn't make a mistake. He made a man the way he made a man & he made a woman the way he made a woman complimenting parts. He made your rectum for one use only. He made the other parts for their uses. He made all things with purpose & careful consideration before he put al His plans in action.
Ok, so you have always felt that you should have been the other sex since you can remember. Fine. Why? Why have you felt that way? There are a million reasons why!
But let me tell you this: My ovaries had all put started to shrink themselves into non-existance. Then I took some drugs. I still can't ovulate. But my ovaries are back to normal size. There has never been a minute that I felt male, even with all these female hormones running dry in my body. I did feel less female, but not male. I am not gay. Just all the drugs, hormones, etc…in our foods, water, etc….has taken it's toll on me & my body. What if….
the.SWO.ter said
Don’t stop with just the gays! As James points out in an open letter to Dr. Laura, there is a lot more work to be done if we want to follow God’s will as expressed in the Old Testament…
Dear Dr. Laura
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that
knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend
the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that
Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other
specific laws and how to follow them.
1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odor for the Lord – Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors.
They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in
Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair
price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in
her period of menstrual cleanliness – Lev.15:19-24. The problem is,
how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and
female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend
of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can
you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus
35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated
to kill him myself?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination – Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than
homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I
have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading
glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room
here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two
different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing
garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester
blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really
necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town
together to stone them? – Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.
Your devoted disciple and adoring fan,
Jack
Bryan said
Because I think your comments bring to light an often heard argument, I will be addressing it in a future Blog. There are some important questions raised by your post and they deserve adequate space and attention. I would be curious to see the original post of this letter and perhaps her response if you could provide it. It provides context. An always important issue when debating issues. More to follow.
Ben said
SWOter seems to think that only the Old Testament addresses homosexuality, and hopes that by citing other scriptures the restriction may be lifted through non-applicability.
Venture into the New Testament SWOter, see what you find. Also, when reading the Bible, let me know if you find a single instance when homosexuality is spoken kindly of or dealt with nicely (again Sodom and Gamorah comes to mind).
The Burk Family said
the.SWO.ter,
Your response saddens me. For you are not one seeking truth but yet rather desparately trying to discredit God’s Holy Word to justify sin. You mock the God to whom I serve so wholeheartedly. FYI – you could try from now until eternity and you will never be able to accomplish that which you set not to do! Why? Because He’s God. Before time ever began He knew the scriptures that people would try to twist or take out of context, and therefore He prepared in advance, for everyone scripture you try to turn against Him, He has several more to back His point! You see, He did this not for His benefit but for yours, as He loves you so much, He wanted to leave no room for misunderstanding. Just as a child who blatenly disrespects his parents, you are heading down some dangerous territory, by mocking God’s Holy Word.
There is a reason behind having two separate testaments of the Bible. They work together to reveal an entire picture. One does not reveal the entire story without the other. Just for an example the scriptures that you so willingly mock, are brought into a new light. First- you neglect the fact that because Jesus came to earth and sacraficed His life for our sins, we no longer need the blood of any animal! The blood of Jesus is more than enough to cover our sins. 2nd You insinuate that God approves of slavery, yet have you forgotten the drastic measures that He took just to free Moses and His people of such an act. 3rd The defect in sight you refer to is a spiritual one, which if you believe the Bible condones Homosexuality then you definitely have a defect in sight. We could go on all day! But it will never satisfy you because you are not seeking truth, you are seeking a scape goat. In short the old testament helps to instill a reverant fear of God. Just as a child, who has not been beaten, neglected or spoiled has a reverant fear of his parents. We must also have fear God and the consequences of our actions. This is for our own protection. Having a holy reverant fear keeps us from doing the things that will ultimately destory us. The severity of punishment in the old testament was a common practice of their time. It shows in a physical way what these sins do to us spiritually and it also puts into perspective the incredible weight that Christ bore for us. For as the old testament reveals the mighty being God is, the new testament reveals the hope we have in His Love. If you really want to have revelation of the scriptures, instead of Mocking them why not try falling on your face before God! Develope a ClOSE and PERSONAL relationship with Jesus Christ. Get to know Him better than you know yourself. The Holy Spirit then reveals the truth as God has written it. Only the Holy Spirit within us can reveal the truth in it’s entirity. However, the new testament makes it pretty clear concerning Homosexuality as well, Read Romans 1:24-32
I pray that your heart begin to seek truth!
“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost; In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believes not lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ who is the image of God should shine through them. For God, who commanded the light shine out of darkenss hath shined in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.” 2 Corinthians 4:3,4,6
You will not find your excuse! The word clearly states that. “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of Him for the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are WITHOUT EXCUSE.” Romans 1:18-20 Again I incline you to continue to read Romans the first chapter starting with the 24 verse if you want a new testament addition for your Homosexual referring scriptures. And if you still lack wisdom then the word has an answer for that as well “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to ALL men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.” James 1:5 “Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughiness and recieve with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save souls.” James 1:21
I pray that you develop the reverant fear that God so inclined with the words of the old testament you carelessly mock. For He loves you and has left no room for misunderstanding when you diligently seek HIM!
Amy Lee said
Dear S.W.O.ter, -
You are a bloody fool! (Yes, I am resorting to name calling.) It angers me that you are so lazy that you can't, first, think for yourself that you have to post a Dr. Laura letter. Secondly that you so proudly regurgitate someone else's thoughts & words without questioning the source or the logical they were based on. Thirdly, AMEN! There is a whole other part of the Bible that the other posters clearly pointed out; THE NEW TESTAMENT! You might ought to pick the Bible up, a complete version, even in the English Standard Version where you might understand it.
Marriage was sanctioned by GOD! He invented marriage, not man. Thus marriage is that of God & His work, not something man just decided one day to do (though our society likes to believe otherwise).
If God invented it, I am sure He was certain about the rules involved. I don't recall Him ever asking for input from our fallen souls on how He should define marriage, or anything else for that matter.
Marriage serves many purposes, none of which was to help those that feel so different, has mixed wires in their heads or DNA, to validate who they are.
What I don't get, why do Gays need this holy sanction called marriage so bad? I mean, they apparently have no desire to believe in God's word.
Is it that they still believe in His love & His Grace? Great! You cant' get those without believing His word.
Or is because God made man/woman in his own image, thus no matter how hard we fight what God made us, we still innately seek to be most like Him & accepted by Him? Hmmm…I don't remember God or Jesus humping another man. Do you?
What Would Jesus Do?
the.SWO.ter said
Well, it seems that the point of the tongue-in-cheek piece was missed entirely. This is no way mocks (or even comments on) god or condones homosexuality but rather is focused on bible thumping bigots who pick and choose passages from the bible to support their cause while blithely ignoring others.
@Ben – I was not aware that something had to be mentioned more than once in the bible to rate being followed. But apparently since homosexuality is mentioned in the Old *and* New Testament, you take it seriously but since, for example, the shellfish abomination is only mentioned in the Old Testament, you are still free to gobble down a lobster once in a while as *you* see fit.
@The Burk Family Dude, your ramblings are totally incoherent. In the future, identify the point you want to make, then address it clearly and succinctly.
@Amy Lee Should everyone be required to believe that? Perhaps we should vote and establish a State religion, maybe send squads of religious police around. Also, I find it interesting how adamant you are about the everlasting sanctity of a covenant marriage. If this is true, are you really married?
@all I suggest loosening up a little, try to see humor even in serious topics, because whether you believe in a petty, homo-, clam- and poly-cotton-blend-hatin’ god or not, that line about playing football with gloves was hilarious.
The Burk Family said
There is a time for humor and there is a time to be serious! I personlly feel that a soul being tortured for all eternity in a lake a fire is a time to be serious. You evidently do not feel the same! You are right about one thing, no one is Required to believe anything! We all have a choice. However, whether we believe it or not doesn’t make it any less real, and the consequences for our unbelief remain the same for everyone! I strongly suggest, no URGE you to take the time to slow down and READ the scriptures that I provided as well as others, they explain my point very clearly. If you don’t understand them then maybe you should take my other advice and fall on your face before God and ask Him for wisdom. For the point that I feel I already made is simply,(okay I’m slowing down, now are you with me?,,,,, okay,,,,,every issue you describe in the bible is addressed,,,,, you just have to know where to look and every detail is explained,,,,,YOU JUST HAVE TO ACTUALLY READ THE ENTIRE BIBLE, I explained the sacrafice and slavery,the defect in sight, now The shellfish you talk about is also explained, after Jesus came we no longer are required to pull away from shellfish although it’s recommended, we just have to bless that which we eat! The Bible covers every time era! Do you understand? Or do I need to talk slower? Basically, read the Bible before you start bashing it because souls depend upon it! If you are having trouble understanding it, then ask God for wisdom, he upbraideth not! (oh sorry, forgot who I was talking to) God will give you wisdom when you ask! I also would be happy to supply more scriptures to explain in more detail. However I will only do so if you are actually seeking the truth with a desire to grow closer to God. I refuse to disrespect my Heavenly Father by giving you more opportunity to mock, (sorry forgot again) make fun of His Holy Word. Which is EXACTLY what your intention was whether you admit now or not!
One more thing, Do you realize that the first paragraph of your last comment describes YOU to a certain Tee? The other bloggers are desparately trying to reveal the entire meaning behind the scriptures you mock but you refuse to see the full picture. Your first comment clearly disreguards the entire new testament of the Bible as well as most of the old. Even you have to see the irony in that!
The Sensei said
Wow! I guess we have some dissenting points of view hear. I think it is appropriate to be thankful that we have all been blessed to be born in a country that allows us to have these discussions at all.
I do not presume to think that anyone is going to convert the.SWO.ter here and I’m quite sure he knows that no one will turn to his cause, whatever that might be. If this Blog does nothing else I want it to expose different people to new ideas about all facets of life. This, in my opinion, must encompass the religious realm.
I have extended the.SWO.ter and invitation to post a complete BLOG here in the future if he so choses. It doesn’t mean I agree with his arguments only that I believe he needs to be heard. I thank everyone for the comments and I hope they keep coming.
Tell your friends! The more that get involved the better the discussions.
the.SWO.ter said
@ The Burk Family Sorry if you misunderstood but I really wasn’t mocking the bible. (Though, I certainly reserve the right to mock it in the future as I see fit. But then again I mock many things, even myself.)
If you are happy choosing to believe in a fire-and-brimstone kind of god, I support you. I just don’t choose the same.
You did teach me something though, when googling the Jesus and Shellfish thing I came across this passage:
Matthew 15:11
“What goes into a man’s mouth does not make him ‘unclean,’ but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him ‘unclean.’ “
Now I understand what my Gay friend meant when he claimed that if stuck only to oral, he was still going to heaven.
The Burk Family said
the.swo.ter,
It is abundantly clear that you are so NOT ready to receive the truth. However by no means is any man a lost cause! Yes I definitely believe in a fire and brimestone God. There is a Heaven and there is a HELL, but I also believe in a God of Mercy, Grace and LOVE. No matter how vile your thoughts of the bible are. NO matter how much you want to mock His truth. There is HOPE for every man! Once again I will say that just because you do not believe in something does by no means make it NOT true. There will come a day when you will SERIOUSLY have to face issues, and I can only pray that God’s mercy surpasses His judgement until the day when you are ready to seek truth! You stomp on my beliefs, you mock my greatest Love, but there is still hope for your greater purpose!
With much Love in Christ!
Dana Burk
Amy said
Why yes, I am truly married. Thanks for asking, though I am not sure where your question was actually headed. (And really am not sure I care!)
Yes, we should consider police…but not religious. What I was getting at was more my thought process of intellectualizing the whole gay & gay marriage issues, briefly. Though I love many individuals who are indeed gay, I do not condone the behavior. I love them the best way that I can through Christ.
My point was believing the way that I do, but since you took it so literal, you must have started to question some of my logic as a possibility. This is really a much longer discussion that no one would read due to it's length. Hence the reason so many still go uneducated & unable to think for themselves.
Until 1973, mind you in the middle of the "Free Love" period, being gay was taken off the list of being a psychological disorder. The word gay being used to express homosexuality started in 1971. I mention this to stop the argument in the tracks about it only being in the psychology books as "gay". It was address as homosexuality & homosexual tendencies in numerous wordings throughout history. For as much research as I have seen, this has been addressed since psychology formed. Why? Because it was a very perverse behavior that society believed as a threat to themselves & others.
(skipping a lot of little detail links…)
We should accept being gay, no matter how we rationalize or intellectualize it, what is next? We start letting those child molesters out of prison & on the streets? How could I compare the two?
If gay can't be fixed & thus they psychological realm finally decided to accept it, & being a child molester can't be fixed, will be then be accepting it next?
And now they want to get married? Why? If they so violently disobey God's word, why do they want His blessing on a piece of paper. Why is a civil union or a contract of sorts not good enough? It grants them the same legalities of marriage from insurance sharing to adoption in some states.
What grand benefits do they think marriage posses?What are these "rights" that they think marriage grants them?
Do they think that by trying to so hard to be noticed as a monogamous relationship will make them "right"? Or is it that they are fighting their own internal battle without their gay culture. Gays have been known as some of the most promiscuous groups of individuals. Is being "married" their stance against this phenomenon?
I refuse to give them marriage. By the way, I have the same argument about those who marry at the court house! I even question those who use a minister, but just because he was the one the resort offered.
Call it Christian fundamental poop for all I care. But if you do decided to intellectualize the reason why gay marriage should be granted, thus going back to sources of the beginning, you will find yourself standing before God tell you it is an "abomination".
the.SWO.ter said
then it seems like you would be all for my idea of placing the sacrament of marriage fully in the hands of the clergy. if you belong to a sect that feels it is against god’s will for homosexuals to marry, then they, by all means, should refuse to perform the ceremony.
have everyone (gays and straights alike) get a civil union contract from the State and then let each person’s spiritual/moral compass guide them in the marriage issue.
I am sure that by now your husband has explained exactly what my point was about the status of your marriage. I agree, I think you are married as well. The point is that there are plenty of self-proclaimed Christians who would argue otherwise and base it on the scripture…if they were to gain the majority, would you consider it just that they sought law to invalidate your marriage? (Just in case this example is too ham-handed, I will say that I am simply attempting to persuade you to think about the issue from the perspective of the target of the “righteous” as opposed to only from the perspective of the “righteous”)
Comparing homosexuality to child molestation is not only a red herring but an absolute slap in the face to anyone who has been the victim of a child molester. One causes unspeakable physical and psychological damage to an innocent child and the other is consensual, pursuit of pleasure at its most base and pursuit of love at its best.
I would have hoped you would have known better than to use that argument and you certainly should have known better than to think you would ever slip it by me….
There is a wonderful show on “This American Life” which discusses the events and people that lead to the change in the DSM classification of homosexuality in 1973. I think you would find it interesting.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=204
Finally, if god turns out to be a hardliner like you claim, I am sure that I will be banished long before he reads down my list of transgressions far enough to get to “intellectualizing the reason why gay marriage should be granted.” (which, by the way, I don’t)
Luckily though, most of the people I know would be banished right along with me…so I won’t be lonely.
g said
For the record:
SWOter’s first posting (properly cited) WAS, indeed, funny. My guess is God has a sense of humor, he appreciates humor, and wasn’t overly offended by the post.
Also, I like Burke’s puzzle analogy.
To avoid any confusion, let me state my position–I do not support gay marriage.
That being said, should it be illegal to be gay, a gay-Christian, or a Non-Christian?
Also, I didn’t see any debate on the issue of whether being gay is a pre-determined inherited physical behavior or a learned behavior. And does that matter?
The original article equates being gay with being black. This assertion is only true if one believes being gay is a trait someone is born with and which they possess little or no control over the condition thereof. IF it is a geneticly disposed condition (like skin color) which the individual has no real ability to determine, then that takes the argument in one direction. IF it is a socially learned determination (ie. they choose it) then that is another argument entirely.
I would be interested in hearing (reading) the thoughts of the blogosphere on what the concensus is.
Amy said
Yes, I was updated. Thanks!
I understand the need to see more than one perspective & it reads as if we all have a little different one.
As for you comment on comparing the two, I am a victim of child molestation for 4 years of my life. I believe I have a great sense about myself & God to not be all "victimized" like so many. It wasn't me that was ill, it was him. I am clearly separate that & understand that. To me the two, they are equal on all grounds.
And yes, gays are stepping on my emotional & mental health, & in some cases my physical health. Have you been hit on by another guy/woman? I have…more than once & in different countries. I suppose there is something about me. LOL! And what do you propose will happen when more than 50% of the nation becomes gay? This change in sexual orientation will clearly be the eliminating element of our society. We won't be procreating enough to even sustain ourselves, we barely do now. (Yes, I have do believe our world adapts to the changes we cause, including sexual orientation. Once men used to have all the control in this area & women freely played along, then…well…now look.)
Also, it isn't just me. It is our society as a whole. Sure, so many think that it is not them that is being harmed…not until their child is molested by the gay priest, or until their Boy Scout Leader insists that they understand why it is ok to be gay (when it is not), or when it causes 14 year olds who haven't even had a real chance at having sexual encounters to believe that they are gay based on a stereotype or behavioral pattern. My list can go on.
Just because the gay movement into our society is not as quick & sudden, it doesn't mean that it is any less toxic & poisonous than child molesters (or murders, etc). I can go a step further & compare it to drugs. You get one high, then you want another, then before long you can't live without it. Is it any less poisonous to our society?
Sexual orientation I believe should be chalked up to "religion & faith" of ones choice or non-choice/lack there of. Yes, I would be fine with the State adopting a standard across the board, (meaning for everyone), a civil union. Baptism is done in the church by the church, why not marriage. I can see your point on this clearly. After all it is a separation of church & state in our government. But that is not what the gays are trying to do (though they would be much more successful).
I think that the nature verses nurture topic will need it's own blog post. Why don't you do that one?
The Burk Family said
God may have a sense of humor, however not only does He require reverence from us, He deserves it as well. Sorry if that sounds harsh but its just the way I feel.
SWOter, just so you know! I am so happy that God does not keep a list of our transgressions. In His eyes we either know Him or we don’t, He sees us stained with sin or white as snow, We are either lost sinners or Forgiven! Then Once we are forgiven, old things are forgotten and we become a new creation!
As it says in 2 Corinthians 5:17 “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.”
And I think that if you do become “banished” as you say then being lonely will be the least of your worries! I pray that doesn’t happen.
Okay, on to g,
After all the work I’ve had in explaining minor Biblical details, I am very leary about answering such an indepth question, but I guess I will throw my two cents worth in! Of course my answer would be a Spiritual one, To put it simply I will just recite, Ephesians 6:12 “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Also 2 Corinthians 10:3-4
“For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down of strongholds,”
I believe that there are a few different types of Homosexuals, One as I think Amy mentioned before, there are some who gradually become this way through a long drawn out process of perversion. It becomes a high, they need newer and nasty things to keep their interest. Then there are those who may act or look a little different, so they are labeled gay and after awhile they just choose to accept it. Then there are the last group to whom I myself have a greater compassion for. These are the ones who have inherited a generational curse (if you will)It’s in the bloodline. Throughout the Bible God makes references to the fact that the first born would inherit the family blessings. Well the Bible also makes know the fact that Satan tries to copy everything God does, only he produces the opposite. If you were to do a study, you would find that a high percentage of gays are first born! Hmmm, interesting right? Now I am by NO means whatsoever saying that these people are BORN gay. They may be tempted throughout their life because of a stronghold. But They still have a choice! However, that choice becomes limited if they do not know God. The only way to break generational curses is through the Blood of Jesus Christ. Therefore, if they have not accepted Jesus Christ and also this is a big one, taken the authority to which was given to them through His blood, well let’s just say it’s way to strong to do on our own. Homosexuality is something that can only be delivered by the blood of Jesus! That is why the Bible comes against sexual sins so strongly. They are the hardest to overcome and they do the most damage to our mind, body and spirit. But with God all things are possible. Many homosexuals have been converted after receiving Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. And before anyone even goes there, although there are those claiming to be(These fall into the “religious” category), there are NOT any true born again gay Christians (at least not any who are happy about it) How do I know this? Well because when you receive Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, just as I mentioned before, you become a new creation. This happens because God’s spirit now dwells within you and brings strong convictions. A true Christian will be striving for his or her life to line up with the word of God. (As we’ve already stated homosexuality does not line up with the word of God.) Deliverance may take time, but they will be striving for that cause. If they say they are gay, they have either never been born again, are backslidden, are struggling with deliverance or are completely blinded by trap of the enemy.(he loves to lie to us and say we’re okay when we’re not,that’s why it’s so important to stay close to God and check our hearts daily,) We all have things in our lives that we need deliverance from, some are just harder to let go of then others. Now I know you boys are just waiting to ponce all over this entry! However, know that I stand firmly on this issue as a biblical one and I will not debate anything outside of scripture. I will also, out of respect for God’s word, not answer to anything that takes scripture out of context. This is my belief from a Biblical perspective, which by the way is the ONLY way I try to perceive things.
the.SWO.ter said
a red herring remains a red herring even if you repeat it over and over again.
homosexuals are as toxic as murderers….come on….
if you want to be a bigot, just be a bigot….you don’t need to justify it with all this nonsense…
The Burk Family said
Bless the lord Oh my soul and forget not ALL His benefits: Who forgiveth ALL thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases: Psalm 103:2,3
For Romans 3:23 says “For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God.” Romans 6:23 “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Romans 5:8 “But God commendeth His love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”
1 John 1:9 says, “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from ALL (did you get that, ALL) unrighteousness.”
Hebrews 8:12 “For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities I will remember no more.”
The wage of any sin is death, but Christ died so that we do not have to die because of our sins. That has to excite even you a little bit.
Point: One sin is enough to keep you out of Heaven Period! And one moment is enough to be Forgiven for ALL!
Just to make sure you got that I’ll slow down and say it again.
Point: one sin is enough to keep you out of Heaven Period! And one moment is enough to be Forgiven for ALL!
That’s why you are either one or the other. Jesus suffered and died for this reason, to deliver us from ALL sins, not just the ones that we perceive as being worse than others. The blood of Jesus is powerful enough to cleanse us entirely, no motter what we’ve done. So see SWOter even in all your hatefullness, you can be forgiven as well.
Shame you have to resort to name calling to have something valid to say!
Amy said
SWOter – Man, dude, seriously. Can you not read? Or are you scared to read the Bible? Afraid it might enlighten you to even a little hint of truth? Come on! If you are going to fight with this mess, then you might as well read what you are fighting against. Know thy enemy son! Even B read the Quran just to know.
Burk Fam – Thanks for pointing out that Satan's whole divine purpose is to manipulate & deceive God's creatures in hope of building an Army against God. It has been my favorite passage for years now & a comfort in my personal fight with my demon; 2 Cor. 11: 13-15,
"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if he ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their words."
Last I checked, now I could be wrong, but God didn't lay out a weighted scale on sins. Sin, sinning, being a sinner is all the same. Murder, cheat, rape, pillage, lie, etc. They are all the same. This would include the "abomination" of homosexuality. Still a sin. He, the Lord, is the judge. If he has a weighted scale, then it is He who gets to determine the weights. It is our job just to avoid sin…period. No matter which one, they are all the same.
This does not make me a bigot. It makes me a believer of the truth. Not self righteous, jut a believer. I don't go out after gays & trying to "defeat" them. You might have tried knowing me a little better first, to know that I am actually very curious as to the understanding of those gay & transgender. I can empathize with them, but that doesn't mean I condone their behavior. I can be compassionate & love them as Jesus & God do, but that does not mean I have to believe that they are living in the light. I can respect them as human beings, creations of God, & as fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, etc. Jesus lead with love, not hate, but He didn't let those sins go unnoticed. He simply loved them more.
Nature v. Nurture? Great question. And the Burk Family did another great job at pointing out how the devil will mimic God's work & words to do his own deceitful mess.
Those who are just born, believing that they are the opposite sex, or homosexual, have a much harder battle to fight than those who aren't so easy enticed with this alluring perversion. There is a great Bible study for men on this topic: Every Man's Battle. There are many Bible Studies just on this nature. Even the Muslims think that men can't control themselves, that is why they woman has to remain in control of herself, covered & segregated. Is that what you would have us do SWOter?
Burk Family, thanks for clearing that up too. I was close in my thoughts & beliefs but had a hard time expressing it. Thank you!
Amy said
Has it not been stated? EPH 6: 11-12 In regards to the whole armor of God…
"Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh & blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
I think this sums it all up, don't you? That wilely old devil…
the.SWO.ter said
just to clear up the name-calling accusation I was using the following definition:
big·ot (bĭg’ət)
n. One who is strongly partial to one’s own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
both Amy and Burk hold a very black or white point of view, either you are with us or you are damned…
I don’t see much tolerance there.
So I am simply using a word properly that describes your attitude. It ain’t name calling, it’s just English.
Before I am subjected to another volley of biblical verses supporting your claims, I concede that you are able to back-up everything you say, you no longer have to put energy into demonstrating that for me.
The difficulty here is that I (and most of the population of the world) don’t recognize the bible as having any particular authority.
There, of course, is no way to really ‘know’ that one way or the other. It could be the absolute divine word of god or it could be the contrived writings of the early Church consolidating socio-political power or it could be the trickery of the devil himself.
But one makes a leap of faith. To avoid being a bigot, one must recognize it as a leap of faith, totally ungrounded in ‘knowledge’ or ‘truth’ and therefore also recognize that other faith groups made similar leaps. The chances that their leap is the correct one is just as good as yours.
I see your dilemma though, your leap of faith brought you to a book that claimed that all other leaps of faith are erroneous, perhaps even sinful. How can that be reconciled?
I don’t know if there is a good answer to that…all I can do is detail how I came to terms with it (which is why I am no longer a Catholic) but since that is my intended topic for the piece I will write response to the Sensei’s invitation, I won’t go into it here…
@Burk one does not have to be hateful to disagree with you and engage you in discussion, even if it gets heated….Bryan can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that that is exactly what he is attempting to provoke with this site. You’d be surprised, I am actually a pretty nice guy, doing my best to be positive and loving. (that, of course, doesn’t mean I won’t tear your arguments down like a flimsy house of cards, if given half a chance. but it ain’t personal.)
The Burk Family said
SWOter,
You forgot one tiny part to that definition that last part which states, “one who regards or treats others with extreme hatred and injustice.” Which goes against EVERYTHING that I believe in, I do my best to always reach out in love.
I’m sure that you have had some not so pleasant experiences with the church. People will easily fail you, but God Will Never fail you. You see that’s what makes the difference between my religion and others. That why makes my leap of faith is a safe one. I am leaping into the arms of the only LIVING GOD! You probably can’t imagine how absurd the idea is to me when people try to categorize My God with that of other statues and idols. Of course, I’m positive that you haven’t had the experiences I have had or you would know exactly what I’m talking about. My God is more real to me than that of anyone I pass on the street. I hear HIS voice. During our miracle journey with our daughter, He told me step by step what we needed to do, and He pulled her with. She is supposed to be either dead or a heart transplant patient right now. According to man there was no other option. But God gave her a new heart instead. When my husband and i were having a hard time in our marriage. One night God awaken me and told him he was somewhere he didn’t need to be. I asked God to tell me where he was. Then I got in my car,directed by only God’s words was led to every turn, I drove down roads that I have never been before. He led me straight to the house my husband was at and I stopped something BEFORE it went far enough to destory our marriage. Why did He do this, because I asked Him to. I put my trust not in man but in God. I can not watch my husband or my children 24 hours a day but God can. So I trust Him with All aspects of my life revealing to me things as I go. I’ve felt His touch. During some of the hardest moments of my life, I desparately cried out to him with a broken heart. And I literally felt Him wiping away my tears. I have even smelled the sweet aroma of His presence,(it smells sweeter than anything this earth has to offer). You might be thinking, “Wow send her to the looney bin.” But I can assure you that all those who TRULY seek Him (not religion but HIM) have similar stories. And I know if you ever call out to Him with an EARNEST heart, you would feel the same. You see, I know everything in the Bible is real because my GOD TOLD me it was!
Oh and I don’t truly think you are hateful, that was the point of the little smily face.
The Burk Family said
With that being said, I’ve veered off course. I think it’s probably time to move on to other topics. I think we are chasing our tails here. For at least the time being we are each set in our ways and nothing new is coming to light. All in favor of moving on, say I. I!